Have you ever been in a conversation with a group of women, only to watch the talk turn to motherhood and feel yourself fading into the background?
That’s the topic of this week’s Whiny Wednesday:
Being excluded from conversations because you don’t have children
Happy Whining!
Women in my family are all known for having 4,5, 6 kids. I myself come from a family of 6. I cannot stand family gatherings because It always turns to pregnancy talks or children talks. So then I end up hanging out with my younger teenage-lower twenty year old cousins and siblings. Like c’mon there is more to life than children!!
YES!! and the worst is when they come up for air and say, “Gosh, you’re awfully quiet all of a sudden.”
Or…don’t you have something to say???
Yes.So incredibly often. I know that it’s led me to steer away from hanging out with groups of mom friends. Or even seeing one mom friend at a time – that’s easier, but still, depending on the friend, it can be a one-sided conversation for quiet a bit of time.
And how irritating, to have to respond to, “why are you so quiet?” Isn’t it obvious? Don’t you know me and my life? I do my best to talk about other things like books, shows, travel plans. In fact, travel plans can sometimes be a double-edged sword b/c it can bring to light that those with kids aren’t traveling in similar ways to me and my manfriend. So then it’s dealing with their jealous undertones AND trying to come up with “neutral” topics. Ack!
Something I’ve observed from my work manager is related to this. She is married without children. She’s probably in her early 70’s. When conversations about children emerge between colleagues, she always talks about her nieces, and now grand-nieces and nephews.It’s almost Pavlovian. I’ve wondered if – that as a way to cope and maintain friendships over the years – that this is what she has trained herself to do, to find other children to talk about to be a part of the conversation. Sometimes just hearing her engage this way makes me sad and/or angry. That this topic is so *everywhere,* it can’t be escaped. Even as you’re trying to do your work at work.
She may very well be happy joining in these convos with stories about her nieces – she’s certainly eager to dole them out. And that’s great. Yet I can’t help but think this has been a form of survival and connecting for her over the years….
I can’t speak for your work friend; however, I often join in conversations by talking about my nieces, nephews, exchange daughter, and even our fur-babies. For me, it’s not about “survival.” For me, these are my kids, and I enjoy talking about them. I feel it shows others that there are more ways to have children than by simply giving birth or adopting. I teach others about my non-traditional family and am able to deepen relationships with co-workers, friends, etc. I truly hope others don’t feel sad for me about this… Because my childless, but not childfree, life is fulfilling and joyful and worthy of talking about!
Hi Brandi,
I get your point of view, too. I think the specifics of my workplace are hard to describe w/o personally experiencing it. I’ve worked at other organizations where topics of conversation about our lives outside of work are more diverse – books being read, trips taken, volunteerism, etc. At my current employer “the topic” is children. It’s just how it is. Most days, I’m able to ignore it and/or excuse myself to get back to my work and on with my day. It took me a long time to get to know people here and to show them that I have other aspects of my life that I like to talk about and am proud of.
For that matter, my manager does too. It’s like the de facto lowest common denominator here is children/grandchildren. If people w/o them want an “easier” way to be a part of conversations, it’s the topic. It does get old and on days, I feel sad about it. Some days it pains me to notice the subtle expressions of women like me – who don’t have kids – who are in the midst of these conversations. It just gets old! Sometimes I get into it, though, and talk about kids I nannied or the preschool I worked it. Maybe it’s on days where I’m less bothered by it or just don’t have the energy to walk away or listen silently. And those experiences with kids are great memories for me! Heck, a gal I nannies for from birth on asked me to be in her wedding! She is a precious relationship for me.
Other than this, I love where I work. We help to provide great experiences for older adults, care for when they need it and beautiful homes.
Thanks for sharing your point of view!
Hi Jill – this resonated with me, I’ve talked about my nieces and other people’s children over many years to try and join the conversation. I’ve even talked about my own childhood as I don’t have blood nieces and they live overseas and I actually know the neighbour’s cat better! Its definitely a survival thing which I’m now ready to throw in the trash! I’m bringing my authentic self into the conversation or happily walking away if if reverts back to children. When I say happily – its more, well I’m not going to cling to the conversation in this way anymore. I’d be happier if we could find other topics some days!
Hi Jane,
I hope that my comment didn’t offend you. I didn’t make it from the point of view of judging how my manager talks about her family. She loves them dearly and they are very much a part of her day-to-day life.
And so is the drum-beat of “having children” at our workplace and in society at large, as we well know. I guess that as I lived more life and had more experiences (as people with children have likely experienced, too) I wonder why the default continues to loop back to discussions of family. In some ways, it feels like I’m still a 5 year old, talking about sister and parents and house and dog to my friends…but that was my life as a 5 year old!
Don’t most adults have some part of their life beyond their children/families? I think we/they do. It’s just something that seems not to rise up a lot in conversations, unless there is a point about talking about different topics.
I live in Minnesota – the only other most common thing to talk about is the weather – HA! But at least that’s a universal topic!
Hi Jill – you’d didn’t offend at all. I liked your post and viewpoint – I felt happier knowing that I didn’t have to find ways to join the conversation necessarily – but bring in my own conversation. Reading these posts is making me bolder!. It does seem to always loop back to children though! Yes, we always talk about the weather in the UK too! We mostly moan that its raining. Our heatwave last week was a great topic for 3 days!! Guess what – everyone moaned ……….
Totally get this. My boss threatened to fire me because I wasn’t engaging in conversations that I couldn’t participate in, and because I was “grieving too much” (that is a direct quote)
Yup. Skipped out on end-of-year drinks with colleagues because I know that even the guys will wind up talking about their kids and the invisibility cloak will creep up my shoulders and be weighed down by the epaulettes of judgment and faux-pity.
Yes I feel excluded. Especially when they talk about birth stories. I’ve given birth, but my twins didn’t make it and I feel like I can’t talk about my experience and that people also forget I did go through labor and delivery because I have no living children.
Oh Jenn- I am so very sorry for your loss. The Western World is not good at talking about grief- they would rather just ignore the entire subject. — The longer my healing continues the more I am able to talk openly about my losses and try and – at times- force the discussion. At the beginning of my grief this was not possible but now I hope to help pave the way for other women who come after me!
I am so, so sorry Jenn for your losses. And its truly awful that you cannot find comfort from people and that they even forget – I have experienced similar. Our grief not being acknowledged definitely slows the healing and is the hardest part of infertility apart from infertility itself. Thinking of you
I’m so sorry for your losses, Jenn. And I am so sorry that others seem to forget your experience and the pain you have suffered. Sending you so many hugs…
Hi Jenn,
I’m so sorry to hear about your losses. I can’t imaging the pain that you have lived through. I hope that resources like this blog and others like it are bringing you comfort and an opportunity for connections. Hugs!
Yes !!!
Or you can’t give parenting advice because you have no children !
When I was teaching that happened a lot .
Or you don’t know exhaustion because you don’t have kids .
My heart breaks constantly!
When I’m in a group that drifts into child-oriented conversation, I give them a few minutes with it. After all, children are a big and important part of their lives, and it’s unreasonable to expect them not to talk about it at all. After a bit I’ll try to redirect the conversation after a few minutes. But if they’re really into it, I’ll excuse myself on the pretense of going to the restroom. I’ll hang out there playing games on my cell phone for fifteen or twenty minutes. Usually by the time I return they’ve moved onto another topic. If anyone asks, I just say that I didn’t have anything to add to that conversation and didn’t want to drag it down for the others.
Yes! This happened to me recently with two good friends, one who has just had a baby, and one who is 6 months pregnant and went through ivf at the same time as me, but was successful.
I chipped in as much as I could but it eventually became a long conversation that I couldn’t contribute to.
I felt really sad about it afterwards. Thanks so much for providing this space to whine about it..
So sorry Stella – that must have been a very difficult conversation to be in. Particularly with no acknowledgement whatsoever from your friends (I still find it hard to accept they don’t have any light bulb moment that says – what is it like to listen to all this from your viewpoint). Really its beyond me – I put up with these conversations for years – stifling tears – no-one noticed ever.
So sorry – thinking of you
This was literally my life at work last year. Thankfully I am no longer in that work situation, but it was such torture when I was!
My family is the worst…I know they love me and don’t intentially mean to hurt me with their words. They are painful….I try to explain my view and feelings, I get told, it was your choice to not have kids, stop complaining. It was my choice to accept at 45, single, not wealthy, no vital eggs to try and move on with some type of life, true. But, I have only dreamed of being a mother and grandmother. Not just an Aunt!!!!
Trying to find a life of acceptance in today’s world, just discovered how much of my confidence was tied with being childless. I am going to be 50 next year and trying to find my own worth as a childless person.
Thank you for all of your experiences and this forum…it helps